Indoor versus Indoor/Outdoor


Savannah Cat
Brewsky wasn’t our first cat. Miss Kitty was. Our initial home—in 1971—was an 8’ x 30’ trailer, and when we moved in, Peggy noticed a wet, miserable, and half-starved kitten near the door. We kept her for a few years until we found it inconvenient, after which we dumped her on my parents, who never objected to having one more dog or cat. Although my mother complained about the mud tracked in by my sister’s Cocker Spaniels (ugly dogs, I thought), she lured them with treats while my father—for whom mud wasn’t a problem—fed them from the table. Both of my parents were of the opinion that if a dog or cat asked for food, you fed him, and this made for some fat Cocker Spaniels.

Unlike our current indoor cats, Miss Kitty came and went at leisure. She liked to sleep in the road despite people honking at her, and she liked to climb trees from which she couldn’t get down. One day, I left her in a tree in the firm belief that she would eventually find her way down. She didn’t, so after two days of rain, I went and got her. Another time, she almost fell from our two story window because she didn’t realize that the screen was off (she did a midair u-turn and came back in). In Miss Kitty’s most infamous incident, my sister ran over her own cat—who she didn’t see—in order to avoid Miss Kitty, who was asleep in the driveway. Miss Kitty spent a lot of time hanging out in my parents’ country store and lived to a ripe old age. Because she was prone to bite, she seemed more like a co-inhabitant than pet.

Miss Kitty represented what I don’t want in a cat. If I’m going to feed an animal, pay its vet bills, empty its litter and so forth, I expect a greater reward than its mere existence. But that’s the difference between my parents and me. They didn’t cozy up to animals, but they liked having them around with the understanding that if the animal got sick or hurt, it was on its own. I would guess that our three cats are going to run us upwards of a thousand dollars a year (a sixteen pound bag of their vet-prescribed food runs $84), and that’s if nothing goes too wrong. My father would have hit an animal over the head with a galvanized pipe—I saw him do it—before he would have shelled out that kind of money, and he would have called me a fool (I can just hear him) if he knew I did. But then I draw little distinction between the inherent rights of “animals” versus those of people. Our belief in our human superiority rests upon our fantasy of being “made in God’s image,” but if we were made in the image of a deity, shouldn
’t we be prettier, that is unless God too is a naked and homely biped with comical genitals?

I’ve had one extraordinarily beautiful dog who I named Bonnie, but all cats (except for a few of the pedigrees) are so pretty that it’s hard to choose, although I think Scully might head the list. I hold her to my face so I can revel in her beauty, but when I reflect upon the homely countenance that I present to her, my shame is only mitigated by my observation that cats don’t appear to appreciate visual beauty.

I am ever challenged by trying to put aside my worldview in order to understand that of my cats. I have purchased entire books (the cat section of my library now contains 31 books) about how cats see the world, but, sad to say, they were all written by humans. People—men mostly—who hate cats imagine that cats disrespect them (like Donald Trump*, they’re very sensitive that way), but we cat lovers are also reduced to projecting our human interpretations onto our cats.

I have a friend, Carl, who believes that cats have an inalienable right to come and go as they please, and that I abuse my cats by keeping them indoors. His is a necessary belief for one whom considers it beneath his masculine dignity to empty a litter box (he won’t pick up after dogs either). In trying to understand Carl
’s position, I must admit that James Bond and Indiana Jones wouldn’t haven’t emptied a litter box either. I haven’t seen all of their movies, so maybe one of them did eventually get himself a catan unneutered leopard probably (real men grab their balls in the presence of neutered pets). To sidestep the litter issue, I suppose Jimmy or Indy might have put a cork up the leopard’s ass while distracting him with caviar (cats are said to LOVE caviar, not that I’ll ever know).

The difference between Carl and me is based upon his belief that cats should live natural lives (i.e. make their own decisions—though he draws the line where sex is concerned) versus my belief that cats, like children, need to be protected from risks that are numerous, common, and deadly. Surely, the greatest boon of an indoor/outdoor cat is that it saves its people money and trouble, but I should think that such savings would be greatly outweighed by the cost, trouble, and heartache of injuries, poisonings, parasites, communicable diseases, reduced life expectancy, and wildlife destruction.

The last thing I want to see some morning is what another friend who didn’t want to be bothered with kitty litter saw—her eight-month-old kitten crushed to death with its intestines strewn beside its corpse. As for Carl, who claims that I abuse my cats by keeping them indoors, he has had two cats since I’ve known him. One simply disappeared, and the other came home with a broken leg, and he had her euthanized. Despite both of his cats coming to bad ends, and any future cats that he gets having similar odds of an early demise, Carl still manages to regard my values as “abusive.” 


I’ve heard some such people claim that when their cats were killed, it was a case of survival of the fittest, despite the fact that evolution has done nothing to prepare cats for the hazards of cars and pesticides. The callousness that underlies people’s willingness to allow their cats to be daily exposed to the risk of a gruesome death is beyond my comprehension, yet those who do it seem cheerful enough. Maybe it hasn’t occurred to them that caring people protect the object of their love to the extent that the object of their love is unable to protect itself.
Munchkin


Then again, maybe they think too highly of God to believe that he will allow bad things to happen to good cats, so they are leaving their pet’s protection in the loving hands of the Almighty. As deeply touching as religious faith is—especially when it makes no sense and is backed by no evidence—might not it be just a little shaken if the “cat lover” had a $20,000 Savannah instead of a bony old arthritic tabby that passed its prime ten years ago? Or what if his aunt had left her cat a million dollars a year to be paid to the nephew for the lifetime of the stump-legged Munchkin? Would these fans of cat liberation still say, “Mere money means nothing compared to my cat’s right to self-determination.”

It is always possible to find stories of outdoor cats that lived to a ripe old age, but you will surely agree that an argument based upon a statistical anomaly is a weak argument. Given the risks involved, shouldn’t those who allow their cats to come and go at least learn all they can about the risks, and do everything possible to mitigate them? Such people could, for instance, keep their cats immunized; have them collared and microchipped; know the location of a 24-hour vet clinic; build a cat-proof fence; live far from busy streets; check their driveway for radiator leaks (a tsp can be fatal); avoid using noxious chemicals in their yards (cats can be poisoned from licking insecticide from their fur); keep their cats indoors when people are commuting or walking their dogs; and so on. I’ve never known anyone who let their cats out who took such measures to protect their cats, or who seemed concerned about their cats shitting in their neighbor’s gardens, killing the songbirds that their neighbors were feeding, decimating the food sources of the wild predator population, or otherwise acting like responsible adults in regard to either their cats or their neighbors. 


*http://www.sadanduseless.com/2015/07/donald-trump-cats/

47 comments:

Elephant's Child said...

Our cats are predominantly inside cats. They go outside for half an hour or so in the morning most days.
We have had cats who went outside whenever they wanted. And have lost them too.
In some of our newer suburbs people owning cats MUST keep them inside, or in enclosed runs. Better for the cats, better for the birds and small animals...

Emma Springfield said...

You mention many ways to protect your cats. Most are applicable to dogs as well. I don't have a cat because of allergies. But we have a dog. When she goes out she is not running free. There is a large cable securely anchored between two trees. Attached to the cable is a light-weight chain that can move the length of the cable and is long enough to allow movement almost to the street as well as back to the house. When we hook that to the dog's collar she has access to the whole yard without the danger of her being in the street. Owning a pet is like having a child. We are responsible for their well-being.

lotta joy said...

Back in my "praise gawd" days, animals were just....animals. No emotions. I still shiver when I think of my schnauzer chained out back in the heat, while watching the ones he loved go into the house and out again, without bothering with a glance. IGNORANCE is the folly of most people. CRUELTY is the absence of all empathy. I was never intentionally cruel, but some of my actions would be viewed now as cruelty. Especially by me.

I learned, as did my sister (although late in her life) that emotions are not the privilege of humans alone. Fear is shared, as well as love, with the "lower creatures", but they do not share our ability to hate, feel anger, deception, envy, have giant egos ....etc.

In fact, I view all animals as our superiors for they commit no crimes, and have no emotions beyond fear and unconditional love.

Strayer said...

I could never in a million years even go to sleep if my cats were out prowling, cavorting with the coyotes, the cat haters, the poisons, the cat killing dogs and the cars, to name only a few hazards that present to outside allowed cats, let alone the audacity of forcing your cats on neighbors who may not share the love. It's like letting your kids run wild among child predators and you just hope for the best and if they don't make it home, your husband says, "well, we'll have another. He/she was such a weakling." Your friend Carl is lazy and has built up psychological defenses to justify his actions.

Winifred said...

Great post Snowbrush. You always come up with some thought provoking issues.

I love your photos too.

I'm sadly catless now & my husband won't let me get another as he says it will outlive us. That's based on the fact that our last two cats lived until they were 21! I didn't mind what they cost in vets bills they were worth it.

All Consuming said...

"but when I reflect upon the homely countenance that I present to her, my shame is only mitigated by my observation that cats don’t appear to appreciate visual beauty." - I'll bet they discuss at length, when you aren't privy to their mewings, how handsome you are. *nods*

I know lots of outdoor cats who've lived long lives and that's here, in a very full on city, but I also know of a couple killed on the roads and after that, their owners won't have any cats let outside again. Two of my friends chose cats from rescue centres that couldn't be let outside because they had been kept in a shed for the first six months of their lives and saw no daylight during that time barring the door opening occasionally. They were shell-shocked wee things, two sisters, both pure white, one much bigger than the other. The main thing is that a cat gets enough exercise. people shouldn't keep cats inside small flats with no room, they need to exercise. My friend Sara has two cats now (the third passed away of old age some time ago), and they all have the choice to go out. One chooses to only ever sit in the back yard and then go back inside, the other roams the neighbourhood and interacts with other cats and other people. *shrugs*. As long as I didn't live next to a main road, I'd let a cat out I think, but that's just me. Otherwise I'd get one from a resue centre like the two sisters, there are often ones who have suffered severe cruelty and can't stand to be in open spaces. But I guess if they have the space and it makes you feel happier to keep them in, and safe, then that's better than leaving them at the rescue place unadopted.

E. Rosewater said...

not too long ago i had a neighbor whose cat frequently slept on the hood of my car when the weather turned cold. the wife was always chasing it away because she thought i might sleep on her car.

i'm guessing that carl is more interested in harassing you than he is in the welfare of your cats.

Charles Gramlich said...

Miss Kitty sounds like the cat with the proverbial nine lives.

Snowbrush said...

“I'm sadly catless now & my husband won't let me get another as he says it will outlive us.”

You are the second person of late to write that your advancing age is keeping you from getting a cat, and I truly hope that, unlike she, you will tell me why you don’t get a mature shelter cat that will probably be killed if you don’t take him or her home? That way, even if you die before your cat dies, you will at least have given the cat a longer life with people who loved it. Since you could have come up with this idea on your own, there must be some reason that you don’t want an older cat, and that’s why I asked the question. Maybe you don’t think that a cat you raised from kittenhood could bond with you, but my prolific reading would suggest the opposite. What would you lose by at least experimenting with a shelter cat, the thought being that the worst that could happen would be that you had to take the cat back. I’ve looked at a lot of shelter cats by now, and I am convinced that a mellow shelter cat would serve my needs quite well, but the emphasis for me is on mellow because I really wouldn’t want the kind of cat that hides everytime someone knocks at the door. I also pet cats that I meet when I’m out walking, and if they’re friendly to me on the street, I figure we would probably get along well in my home too. I don’t mean to say I’m going to steal someone’s cat, but that mature cats can be wonderful cats no matter that they grew up in someone elses residence.

Another thing to consider is that many of these shelter cats were probably owned by people who made the very mistake that you’re determined to avoid, which was to get a cat that they might have anticipated outliving them. I would assume that a cat that lived with older people who were home all the time and had a lot of attention to give it might fit in with you guys quite nicely. Surely, if the only reason your husband doesn’t want a cat is age, then he should have no objection to at least experimenting with getting a mature shelter cat.

I feel so strongly about pets that if all else failed, I suppose I would get a chinchilla or some other little critter that only lives for two or three years anyway. My worst case scenario is that I would end up in some “home” that didn’t allow pets, but if it were to come that, I don’t know if I would want to live anyway. From the time I was born, I doubt that if you added together all the time that, for one reason or another, I didn’t have a pet, I don’t think it would come to a decade and probably a good bit less than that.

Another idea would be to give foster care to cats that aren’t ready to adopt out. Perhaps, they need to get some medical issues straightened out, or perhaps, they’re too young for anyone to adopt. The most important factor in whether a given cat makes a good pet is that it got lots of love from humans at a young age, so everytime I think about what good cats I have, I know that I owe an immense debt to those people who cared for them until they could be put up for adoption. It won’t do to simply warehouse kittens until someone carts them off, they must be given ongoing affection until such time as they’re ready for their forever homes, and you might be in the best possible position to do this. I would even like to do it, but I’m told that I would be putting my own cats at risk for contracting some ailment, and this means that I would have to keep any new cats segregated for weeks until they got a clean bill of health, and I don’t have the space to do that.

Snowbrush said...

“In some of our newer suburbs people owning cats MUST keep them inside, or in enclosed runs.”

Wow! I’ve never heard of such laws. Here, dogs must be registered, leashed, their poop picked up, and so forth, but cats—and cat owners—can do as they please. I suppose this is because most “animal control” departments are woefully underfunded (whenever there’s a cut in social services, the non-human animals are the first to be deprived.

“I don't have a cat because of allergies. But we have a dog. When she goes out she is not running free.”

Ironically (DAMN ironically some might say), given what I wrote about cats, I’ve put all of my dogs out in our fenceless frontyard, unsupervised, trusting them to stay home and out of the street. One day, the dog catcher knocked at my door and pointing to my blue heeler asked, “Is that your dog?” I said it was, so he left. I have a fenced backyard, but it just was easier to put them out front, and they seemed to enjoy watching the parade of people and pets walking past. It certainly takes a lot of trust to this, and it won’t work with all dogs (Irish Setters, for example, are notorious for going over the hill and never being heard from again), but it worked well for me for decades.

“IGNORANCE is the folly of most people. CRUELTY is the absence of all empathy. I was never intentionally cruel, but some of my actions would be viewed now as cruelty. Especially by me.”

Peggy and I have both done things that make us shiver now, yet we loved our dogs (they were ALL dogs back then), and treated them far better than most people treat dogs. We travelled all over the country repeatedly in Datsun trucks with a little black schnauzer. Each night, we got into our bed in the camper and left her in the cab, this regardless of whether we were in a Southern swamp or the Northern Rockies. Truly, we lacked empathy, but, to my thinking, cruelty implies intent, and we had no intention of causing her discomfort. I think that empathy is something that grows in a person, only some people never mature much in that regard. They seem nice enough, but something is lacking in them. I think hunters are that way, but when it comes right down to it, who is worse, them or me, because whereas they might very well be acting in the best light they have, I most certainly am not in some instances. For example, my diet requires the death of fish, and so on.

“Your friend Carl is lazy and has built up psychological defenses to justify his actions.”

Recently, he had two cats to find homes for—someone had died and left them behind. He found someone who wanted both cats but planned to keep them indoors, and he wouldn’t let her have them for that reason alone. To me, he’s like people who hate vegans. What I mean is that you have these humane people who care enough about life to want to avoid destroying it to the fullest extent that they can and still say alive, and instead of supporting them, many people ridicule them. I care so deeply about giving my cats a good home and am willing to go to the expense and trouble and reading that comes with doing so, and instead of supporting me, this man who knows so little and does so little criticizes me, and worse yet, acts in my presence like the pities my cats. It definitely puts a barrier between us, the moreso because he doesn't like to talk about issues.

Snowbrush said...

“I'll bet they discuss at length, when you aren't privy to their mewings, how handsome you are. *nods*”

You put me in mind of Gary Larsen. In one of his animal cartoons, several cows are standing on two feet in a pasture discussing physics. Then a car comes, and the cows go back to grazing.

“The main thing is that a cat gets enough exercise.”

Oh, my god, now I have to buy my cats a treadmill! Do you not know that cats sleep 18-hours a day, spend three of the remaining hours bathing, most of the rest of their waking time eating and staring off into space, and aren’t known for their aerobic stamina? What I don’t understand is why such lazy creatures outlive dogs who love to run and play. Getting a cat to exercise is like getting the proverbial horse to drink. Peggy does her best to get Brewsky to play, but he won’t play with her, or with Ollie, or with Scully. It’s not like cats are dying to exercise (they’re not even dying without exercise), and even their hunting involves long periods of moving as little as possible as they get in position to wantonly murder their prey. Seriously, cats are so weak in terms of aerobic stamina that it’s pathetic. If a mean dog gets after a cat, then that cat better hope he’s near a tree.

“But I guess if they have the space and it makes you feel happier to keep them in, and safe, then that's better than leaving them at the rescue place unadopted.”

Keeping them indoors is better than letting them die but not by much, eh? I think that success as an indoor cat depends upon whether said cat is a reader, a gamer, or a lover of soap operas because without such interests, he or she is reduced to watching birds out the window in the agonizing knowledge that he will grow old and die without having killed even one. I can’t give you references, but letting cats outside is said to be even more dangerous than letting them dip snuff, smoke a pipe, or snort coke. In fact, outdoor cats live but half as long as indoor/outdoor cats because evolution didn’t prepare them for the dangers they face. Truly, it’s less dangerous to let a four year old cat go out than to let a four year old child go out, but that’s only because most perverts don’t rape cats.

“i had a neighbor whose cat frequently slept on the hood of my car when the weather turned cold.”

On my street, there are 49 cars with two cats atop the hood of each car. Hood overcrowding is the real reason why I keep my cats indoors, although it necessitates providing them with hot water bottles and heating pads. Some days I get little else done, what with changing out their hot water bottles and readjusting their heating pads, but that’s the price I pay for being an anal control freak who keeps his cats indoors. Since we have a garage, they could still sleep on a warm car hood if they wanted to but, it being Oregon, the hood would be wet.

“Miss Kitty sounds like the cat with the proverbial nine lives.”

I think you’re right.

All Consuming said...

"It’s not like cats are dying to exercise" - by the Small Gods once outside and running about I've seen them do gymnastics! Hahahahaha. I have friends who have indoor things built, like climbing frames, so they can have the variety of jumping about. Just because they choose to be lazy inside, it doesn't mean they wouldn't be running all over the show outside.


"Keeping them indoors is better than letting them die but not by much, eh?" - No, I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that I disagree with the idea that all cats should be kept inside houses, but if they are, then that is much better than death because they'll be getting love and affectionn and hopefully a good home. But they absolutely will be more bored than being outside. They must be more bored because they have to keep their wits about them out there. And yes, I know it's dangerous, and as I've said I know SO many cats that have survived to an old age yet been outside and inside cats and that's in the city. People who keep inside cats feel strongly about it and that's that, but I would personally rather give them the chance to socialise with other cats in the neighbourhood and experience a life outside of a bulding during their lifetime. I know your cats are marvellously well looked after and won't suffer any at all for being indoors, but they will miss out on the positives that come with being outside. It is down to fear and I understand the fear entirely.

Tewshooz said...

Cats are obligatory meat eaters and are by nature sprinters, unlike dogs that are long distance hunters. Ever watch a lion sprint after prey compared to a dog pack that will run their prey down for miles?
Dogs will also eat just about anything. Protein takes a long time to digest and so cats sleep most of the day. They eat, groom and sleep and then sprint after a mouse, if they can. Even when asleep they are instantly awake if they hear something. A cat will sit for hours watching a mouse hole.....a dog doesn't have that kind of patience. After many years of feeding our cats what we now know was crap food and losing them to kidney or thyroid disease when they got old we finally are now feeding only meat.....no grain at all. Their coats and demeanor have improved greatly. For years our cats were indoor animals because we lived in places that were dangerous for them. Now, we live on acreage away from traffic or pesticides or other harm and they get to go out and hunt and lay in the warm sun. However, they are trained to come inside at evening because we have night predators like owls, badgers and coyotes. Of course they come in during the day when they want....they like to say Hi. Both our cats were older rescues and they know they were given a second chance....yes, they do. We are all bonded to one another now and life is good. I learned many lessons from my younger years when I was ignorant and I guess was guilty of unintended neglect like a lot of us.

Snowbrush said...

“It is down to fear and I understand the fear entirely.”

You might have framed my decision to keep my cats indoors as a matter of prudence or learning, but you chose fear while ignoring all of the arguments I made for my decision except for the one about longevity, with which you seemed to disagree based upon having known outdoor cats who lived to an old age. I have no doubt that you are right in the case of numerous individual cats, but the picture is not so rosy when you take cats as a whole. Also, anecdotal evidence is not terribly meaningful in establishing the truth of a proposition. I would suggest that you Google “Do indoor cats live longer?” and just scroll down the page to see what the prominent organizations devoted to cats have to say based upon their experience and research. I think you would have to look hard to find a person who has devoted his or her life to helping cats who would favor letting cats outdoors. Rather it’s those people and who aren’t so involved and who are therefore able, through ignorance, to minimize the risks. Thus far, they’ve had societal support for doing this, and since we’re herd animals, societal support is all that most of us need to feel justified in doing almost anything.

As for whether indoor cats are bored, I’m sure you’re right inasmuch as keeping them active and alert is a greater challenge, which is why I think that people who don’t have the time and the will to do it shouldn’t have cats because cats are not commodities that are there to be used by us for our benefit. They are more akin to children who have rights, but who are unable to take responsibility for themselves in many situations, the kind of situations that cats commonly face outdoors. Surely, some cats live in environments that are better suited to an outdoor life, but those environments are not likely to be found in cities or where animals that prey on cats are present. By the way, it’s not just cats who live shorter lives in the outdoors; it’s almost everything, and that includes the animals that outdoor cats prey upon, and that you made no mention of. In this neighborhood, there used to be many more wild animals, birds, and reptiles. Then several new people moved in who had outdoor cats, and one woman had eight such cats. Now, when I look out my window, I rarely see a squirrel, a bird, or a snake, but rather a parade of cats looking for animals to kill, although the animals they seek to kill are all dead. I know that you’re a kindly person, and this makes it incomprehensible to me that you made no mention of the wanton suffering and environmental destruction caused by cats, and that has caused many people who seek to help wildlife to hate cats because they see the harm that cats do. Again, it’s not just about us, neither is it just about those animals that we choose to keep as pets. Rather it’s about us, and it’s about them, but we’re only a small part of a big picture, although we shove the rest aside as if they don’t matter, and we do so simply because we can. It’s a case of might makes right as we humans see the world.

Snowbrush said...

“Just because they choose to be lazy inside, it doesn't mean they wouldn't be running all over the show outside.”

Maybe British cats are more athletic because I never see cats run unless it’s a short sprint in the direction of prey, or else there’s a territorial dispute, or two toms are fighting over a female. Surely, outdoor cats walk about more, no matter how hard people try to encourage indoor cats to move about. I think that the best way to get cats to exercise is to get a new kitten every year because nothing puts new life into adult cats than a kitten. Unfortunately, this could end up in a sixteen cat household. We have three cats, and I think that even one more would tilt the balance between pleasure and work. For example, three indoor cats need at least three scratching posts, and they either need multiple litter boxes, or their litter needs to be changed three times a day. A fourth cat would be too much for us.

I can’t say that your observations are without merit, but your emphasis seems to be in the direction of keeping cats happy and active, but there’s much more at stake than that, and you made no mention of those things. You also seem to project onto cats your own feelings about what would constitute a full life, but cats are a very different species. Although I can hardly claim that it’s natural to keep them indoors, it is, as I see it, the only responsible option, and that if it’s all they know, they seem to adjust to it nicely.

Snowbrush said...

“After many years of feeding our cats what we now know was crap food and losing them to kidney or thyroid disease when they got old we finally are now feeding only meat….”

When our (at the time) five year old male got bladder stones, the vet put him on Science Diet Urinary Diet food, and suggested that we put our other male on it too because, as he said, the food would be cheaper than the vet bills. The vet also said that he couldn’t understand why most commercial food is so bad when it could just as easily be good. I really don’t know enough about an all meat diet to comment intelligently, but mine is a vegetarian household except for occasional fish, and I can’t tell you how objectionable it would to 30-plus year vegetarians to cook meat (I'm assuming that you cook their meat). If that was what I thought my cats had to have, I guess I would do it, but again I don’t know enough to be convinced that that’s what they need, and the vet didn’t mention it.

“Now, we live on acreage away from traffic or pesticides or other harm and they get to go out and hunt and lay in the warm sun.”

This gets into part of what I was saying. People who let their cats out often say that hunting is natural to cats. True, hunting is natural to cats, but what often occurs here in town is that there are way more cats than hunting could support, so those cats don’t hunt because of need but because of instinct. The result of having cats in town is a large population of feline predators whose hunting is no more natural than that of a human hunter who has a large breakfast before shooting a deer. There is nothing natural about having forty cats on a block who go about decimating the wildlife. Such cats are no less an invasive species than, in America, English Ivy or Scotch Broom. I very much doubt that most cats even eat their prey. You live in the country where presumably your cats do no discernible harm to the environment, aren’t likely to be killed by cars or mean people, don’t tend to run into other cats, and who come in at night, so I have nothing to say to your situation because, if I understand it correctly, I might even do the same.

Tewshooz said...

Maybe you are a vegetarian, but your cats are not and their digestive system is not meant to consume veggies or grain. Eventually that kind of diet will catch up with them. Science Diet is possibly the worst kind of food there is....read the ingredients on the label. I do not cook meat for my cats; I feed Instinct canned food which also contains no grain and a small amount of vegetables. Our cats eat their prey as they are meant to do....all of it. Sometimes they bring a mouse or vole as a gift for us. Yes, hunting and stalking is an instinct to cats...it is who they are. I do agree with you that town cats are in a different situation....too many do ruin the wildlife. When I lived in the suburbs my cats were mostly indoor cats because I feared for their lives. They spent many hours looking out windows. Were they happy? Probably more resigned to their fate than happy as they tried to escape to the outdoors every chance they got. I used to train my cats to walk on a leash and took them camping with us. They put up with it, maybe even enjoyed it. I see things differently now than when I was young as relates to our cats. It is a fine line between keeping them safe and letting them be who they are. Town cats must live indoor and country cats live in and out. That's my opinion.

Snowbrush said...

“Science Diet is possibly the worst kind of food there is....read the ingredients on the label.”

One of the reasons that I don’t eat meat is my concern for what it contains, and I have the same concern regarding processed cat food. However, I’m not a cat nutritionist, and I have a high regard for my vet, so for the moment, I’m doing what I think is right. I also saw the difference that Science Diet made in comparison to the Costco brand—Kirkland—that I had been buying. Kirkland is excellent for most things, but apparently not for cat food.

“I feed Instinct canned food which also contains no grain and a small amount of vegetables.”

I’ll look into this. Thank you for the reference. It’s so much more useful when people who disagree with me are specific.

“Probably more resigned to their fate than happy as they tried to escape to the outdoors every chance they got.”

I almost never have a cat who tries to go out, and even when they do, they seem more frightened than pleased. The last time it happened, Peggy and I had gone shopping and arrived home three hours past their usual midday meal time of 5:00 p.m. As soon as we opened the door, our oldest cat ran out, and then just stood there looking confused. I picked him up, brought him back in, and fed him. I can open an outside door with little thought for my cats going out. They’re actually much more interested in the garage than in the yard.

“I used to train my cats to walk on a leash and took them camping with us. They put up with it, maybe even enjoyed it.”

We even bought a cat leash, but never used it because we were concerned about giving mixed messages as to whether the outdoors was okay or not. As for camping, we took our dogs camping—this was before we had cats—and there were three occasions when we caught a predator (a Red Tailed Hawk, a Great Horned Owl, and a bobcat) seriously checking out our schnauzer. We’ve thought about taking our cats camping, but that would mean either taking cat litter with us, or getting up during the night to take them out, and then there would be the problem of what to do with them when we went hiking. What I’ve observed in cats is that, to a cat, a good day is a day like every other day, so when people talk about cats’ need for mental stimulation (through encountering variety), I think they’re assuming that cats are much like people, but it has been my experience that such assumptions are misguided. It’s also good to remember that we’re talking about creatures that don’t have a lot of time left in their lives after sleeping and grooming have been subtracted.

“I see things differently now than when I was young as relates to our cats.”

My experience has been mostly with dogs, but I’m very sure that I would treat either species very differently at age 67 than at 27. I can readily think of three reasons for this. One is that I think more for myself now, whereas I tended toward following the lead of society back then. I also reflect more about what’s in front of me versus taking things at face value, and, aside from diet, I’ve by now read far more about cats than than have most people who have cats. When were got out oldest cat, Brewsky, I had no idea what to do with a cat (it was like bringing home some exotic animal), but I’m now comfortable with them, and try hard to be attentive to their needs.

It is a fine line between keeping them safe and letting them be who they are. Town cats must live indoor and country cats live in and out. That's my opinion.”

And I appreciate your opinion. I would be horrified to think that people didn’t feel that it was okay to disagree with me, although I can’t say that I never express my own opinion as diplomatically as I might.

rhymeswithplague said...

I perceive from these last two posts and the ones about the woman writer who knew Phillip Brooks that when you are into something you are REALLY INTO something. You have every word the woman ever wrote and now you have bought THIRTY-ONE books about cats???!!!

This is not meant as a criticism in any way, shape, or form. Merely an observation from afar. Maybe you could write a post sometime about other subjects you have been interested in in days gone by (except for the ever-popular forays into polyamorous relationships, of course) and which lost their attraction for you. An in-depth study of what topic followed what topic, and why, might prove interesting.)

Tom Sightings said...

We brought a kitten home for our baby daughter, expecting it to be an outdoor cat. The very first day the kitten was run over in the neighbor's driveway and lost her tail. That's when we were told that outdoor cats generally have a short lifespan. So we brought her indoors, suffered the indignities of the litter box, and she lived for 18 years. Today, my daughter is a veterinarian.

rhymeswithplague said...

P.S. - I have every word Flannery O'Connor ever wrote. Also J.R.R. Tolkien....

Snowbrush said...

“Today, my daughter is a veterinarian.”

I wish I had a vet in the family—plus a doctor, a lawyer, a dentist, a nurse (no, wait, I have a nurse)!

“…when you are into something you are REALLY INTO something. You have every word the woman ever wrote and now you have bought THIRTY-ONE books about cats???!!!”

I feel inclined to offer a defense—or at least an explanation. First, I don’t have “every word” Deland ever wrote because some of her words only appeared in magazines, and I have no inclination to buy a lot of 120 year old Harpers. Second, I could have never gotten a doctorate unless it had been in the field of Sundry Studies because I do tend to go head-over-heels in one direction and then take off into another. However, this doesn’t mean that I abandon interests, but rather that my focus changes. As for the cat books, there are three St. Vincent de Paul stores nearby that offer a fair assortment of hardcover books that, with my senior discount, I can purchase for $2.25 (St. Vinnies is where I discovered Deland). I buy so many of these books—many of them over 100 years old—that I rarely go to the library anymore, but the fact that I buy a lot of books doesn’t mean that I keep them—not all of them anyway—if only because I would have to build more bookcases for the books, and then buy a bigger house for the bookcases.

“ I have every word Flannery O'Connor ever wrote. Also J.R.R. Tolkien….”

Tastes vary, although I must confess that I have never read Tolkien, and have read very little by O’Connor. As I recall, she was from Georgia, was a devout Catholic, lived her short life in poor health, and wrote depressing short stories. Am I right so far?

rhymeswithplague said...

I wouldn't call them depressing exactly except to southerners, who also find them realistic. Grotesque, shocking, humorous maybe to everyone else.

Tewshooz said...

I have been thinking about what you said that you are a vegetarian because you can't stand what is in meat, or something to that effect. Will you tell me what you mean by that? As a meat eater, I would like to hear your point of view. I am always open to new ideas

Snowbrush said...

“I have been thinking about what you said that you are a vegetarian because you can't stand what is in meat, or something to that effect. Will you tell me what you mean by that? As a meat eater, I would like to hear your point of view.”

I might have been referring to the unnatural diets and the antibiotics that factory animals are fed, but there’s much more to it than that. In about 1983, I gave up meat, fish, and fowl for humanitarian reasons. In 1990, I returned to eating fish after a prolonged illness during which I craved fish. I later learned that eating eggs and dairy wasn’t so humane as I had thought because they require the killing of roosters and bulls since very few male animals are needed for reproduction and, in the case of cows, keeping up the females’ milk production. I then realized that if I were to be consistent in my humanitarianism, I needed to become a vegan, but I never did. Perhaps, if I weren’t married, I would have experimented with it, but I don’t even know if that’s true. Veganism is a hard way to go, and it’s harder still unless the only people you share meals with are other vegans.

When I was a boy, everyone I knew ate the same things, but now that there are different levels of vegetarians, plus the low carb people, plus the gluten avoiding people, plus the simply picky people, and so forth, cooking for people has become such a pain in the ass that I had rather not do it. I think that when you eat with other people, you should make an effort to eat their food. I can’t do this in the case of meat and chicken because after all these years as a vegetarian, it would make me sick—literally sick, as I discovered when I ate half of a hamburger in 1988. If a dish had a little meat in it, I would try to eat it in order to make my host feel good, but mostly, I would just try to find enough to eat to avoid the meat, although my emphasis would be on harmony with the people who made me the meal instead of on purity of diet. It’s a lot to expect to go to someone’s house and demand that they completely change their way of cooking. Surely, compromise is in order, but I would value fitting in over keeping to a diet. I also have no patience with people who are picky. Peggy has a sister who will look at the food we put before her with such a look of disappointment that I had rather she provide her own food, which she actually did the last time she was here.

Peggy was never a big meat eater, so it was fairly easy for her to adopt my initial lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet, although she continued eating chicken and an occasional burger in restaurants. Prior to me becoming a vegetarian, we had regularly eaten ground beef in casseroles and such, and I had enjoyed jerky so much that I had made a large food dryer in order to produce it, but neither of us had cared for steak. After giving up meat, I very much missed bacon and pork chops, but never enough to fall off the wagon. If Peggy liked seafood as much as I do, I would eat it a lot, but she doesn’t so, so my consumption is mostly limited to fish burgers and sardines, all of which are caught from the sea because while I would eat factory fish at someone’s house, I won’t buy it.

It would make both of us sick to cook meat at this point because when you don’t eat it, it just smells like grease. My father, a lifelong meat eater, lived with us for his last two years, but he adapted to our diet very well because he could walk to a nearby store and get cooked chicken that he would bring home and warm in the microwave.

Kranhu said...

Have you written any posts about this election? Kris

Snowbrush said...

“Have you written any posts about this election? Kris”

I’ve thought about writing one about why people plan to vote for Trump. My problem is that although I can put a lot of reasons to paper, I still have trouble understanding it in a way that’s not dismissive of the intelligence and goodwill, if not the sanity, of his supporters. I think supporting Trump boils down to three things. One is an unreasoning level of anger, suspicion, and alienation; the second is anti-intellectualism; and the third is faith in spite of the evidence, which puts Trump supporters into the category of religionists (states controlled by evangelical Christians actually do represent his greatest support). I’m no Hillary fan either, but Clinton to Trump is like a toothache to Alzheimers. I can’t think of Trump without wondering if this was what Germany was like when Hitler went from being laughable to being taken very, very seriously. I don’t say this because I really think Trump is going to take over the country, but because I think Trump is Hitler level bad. What scares me infinitely more than Trump himself is that millions of people support him. I think it makes our country, if not our species, look awfully bad. It’s as if all my worst fears regarding human depravity are being verified by the popularity of Trump, and I don’t think that the harm that he and his supporters are capable of will be ended once he is defeated.

rhymeswithplague said...

Toothache? Alzheimer's? More like irritable bowel syndrome and hemorrhoids. I'm not saying which represents whom. Casting a vote this year is like trying to swim in a septic tank. I am not pleased at the prospect.

Kranhu said...

The Trump supporters that I know are educated, dont agree with the progressive agenda or are against abortion in any form. Last but not least, they despise Hillary and would rather vote for Trump than another Clinton. None that I know are racist or deplorable.
I am amazed that he became the Republican party candidate, and if you read the emails that are floating around, the Democrats did what they could to make sure Trump was the candidate.
This has been the weirdest election I have witnessed. I cant vote for either candidate. Kris

Snowbrush said...

"The Trump supporters that I know are educated, dont agree with the progressive agenda or are against abortion in any form..."

I would refer you the "Demographic Differences" graph of this PEW study from July: http://www.people-press.org/2016/07/07/2-voter-general-election-preferences/7-7-2016-2-30-10-pm-2/

Here's another study that just came online recent: http://www.businessinsider.com/who-are-trump-supporters-2016-10

I don't think you could find a demographic study of Trump supporters that would suggest other than that they tend toward being poorly educated, suggesting that your friends are the exception rather than the rule.

I don't plan to vote for anyone for president.

Kranhu said...

Thanks for the links! Kris

Snowbrush said...

“Thanks for the links! Kris”

You’re welcome. I want to acknowledge that the fact that Trump supporters are, as a whole, poorly educated can’t be taken to suggest that they don't know who will make the best president, and that it would be a logical fallacy if I were to suggest otherwise. I actually think that Trump supporters have valid concerns, and that Trump brings up issues that are important and that the Democrats are hell-bent on ignoring, but my problem with Trump is that I see no reason to think that he is the answer to these or any issues, whereas I very much fear that his ignorance and emotional instability will cause him to create a lot more problems than he solves. As for Hillary, I think she’s an elitist and secretive warmonger whose word means little. During the last election, I voted for Jill Stein (the Green candidate), and if I vote for anyone for president (I’ll vote for other offices and ballot measures), it’s likely to be for her. I also try to bear in mind that if worse comes to worse, and Trump is elected, it could even be for the best because Clinton is such a snobbish hawk. I remember a time when it was thought that having more women go into medicine and politics would create a kinder, gentler world, but the ones who get to the top are no better than the men who preceded them.

I even wonder if the Republican Party is going to split if Trump loses. If it does, maybe it will be for the better. I know that any party that can take people like Palin and Trump (them just being the worst examples) seriously is not a party that I can support. I used to at least consider voting for the various Republican candidates, but those days are over. If a person’s name is preceded by the word Republican, I won’t even consider him or her because I so hate the Party.

Kranhu said...

"Uneducated" has different connotations or meaning to each of us. Yesterday, I attended a funeral for a gal who was murdered in Eugene by her boyfriend in August. The people who were at the service looked uneducated, purely my impression based on how they looked and dressed. Shame on me. But, that is how I think when someone says "uneducated", a derogatory definition. I agree that not having a college degree doesnt mean a person cannot think or have common sense. I know people who are "highly educated" (not a derogatory meaning) who are dumb. (In my humble estimation.)
Kris
My intent was not to highjack your post about cats. No need to post this if you feel it does.

E. Rosewater said...

watching deadwood last night i experienced what might be my favorite line when doc cochran asks me if i'm up to the task:

"oh yes, i'm right where i'm supposed to be"

Myrna R. said...

As I read your post, I thought of the different ways people proclaim and show their love to other humans.
I love how you love your cats. I think it shows your tender heart.
Thank you soooo much for reaching out to me. It was your inquiry that triggered the resumption of my writing. I am grateful to you. My husband is doing better each day now, walking better on his own and looking forward to getting well. I know you know the misery of pain and I appreciate your sensitivity. Hope you are feeling better, less pain more joy.

Snowbrush said...

“The people who were at the service looked uneducated, purely my impression based on how they looked and dressed. Shame on me.”

Appearance matters because we choose how we look based upon the group that we identify with.

“I think when someone says "uneducated", a derogatory definition.”

I was the first person in my family to get a college degree, and although my father hated people who were educated (he thought that considered themselves better than he), he was pleased when I got a degree because it meant that I wouldn’t have to work so hard. Having a degree doesn’t guarantee a love of knowledge, and it’s the love of the love of knowledge that’s important. Even so, there are generalizations that can be made about those who have a degree just as there are generalizations that can be made about most groups. For example, charismatic Christians are likely to vote Republican, are quick to approve of military intervention, favor “enhanced interrogation,” oppose gay marriage, and otherwise be on the Far Right, while Unitarians are likely to take opposite stands on all of these things.

“My intent was not to highjack your post about cats. No need to post this if you feel it does.”

Well, you asked questions that I wanted to answer, so here we are. If you would ever like to share your email address with me in the comments section, I won’t let it appear. I only mention this because I like to have insurance that if Google makes some change that screws up Blogspot, I won’t lose contact with my more devoted readers. However, if you had rather not share your address, it won't make any difference in what we share here on my blog.

“watching deadwood last night”

Peggy was away for eleven days recently, and I watched the entire “The Prisoner” program, but I don’t plan to watch it again because it lacked what I would call a “human element.” How many times have you watched “Deadwood,” do you think, and have you watched “Gunsmoke” lately? I had no idea as a kid that Gunsmoke could qualify as heavy drama.

“Thank you soooo much for reaching out to me. It was your inquiry that triggered the resumption of my writing.”

You’re very welcome. I went back to see what I had said, but I didn’t find it. If I try to get to your blog by clicking on your link when you comment on my blog, I get a message that says “Profile Unavailable,” and it was for this reason that I didn’t visit your blog for awhile. Then, I learned that if I clicked on your blog in the list of the blogs that I follow, I can get there. I just discovered that I could share my address with you, so I did.

billy pilgrim said...

I've watched Deadwood about 10 times. I only watch about 20 minutes each evening before going to bed and it's not so much for the plot but for the atmosphere it creates and all the clever dialogue. In season 3 Jack Langrishe and his traveling theater company arrive in Deadwood and Jack can have me laughing before he utters a word.

I just ordered some silver 308 winchester shells.

CJ said...

As someone who has had numerous very-spoiled cats over the years, like you, I don't think animals should be treated worse than humans.

I think the idea that we can use or abuse animals comes from the Biblical idea than man should have dominion over all the other animals. One more reason to reject religion.

Thanks for the link to Trump cats. It made me laugh. I bet most (maybe all) of those cats have better dispositions than The Donald and probably act more mature, too.

Sorry I haven't been around for a while. I got caught up in some off-line projects, which are still ongoing. I keep telling myself I have to get back to blogging, but then I don't.

Snowbrush said...

“I've watched Deadwood about 10 times.”

I did that with Banacek (starring George Peppard), and I don’t even know why. He was arrogant, superficial, and sexist, none of which are characteristics that I share or would want to share, but for some reason the show hooked me. For one thing, it was filmed in the early seventies when I was in my early twenties, and the atmosphere, cars, and clothes drew me in. For another thing, the star was supposedly to be a first generation Polish American, and he was put down for it, although he invariably triumphed over his detractors.

“As someone who has had numerous very-spoiled cats”

You just made me ask myself if my cats are spoiled, and what it would look like if they were. When I think of spoiled, I think of self-centered and insensitive, and I wouldn’t say that they are that way. Our big cat, Brewsky, is a lover who will go roll right onto his back for a belly rub at any time. Ollie, our middle “child” is a gray cat whose fur shimmers and changes to silver as he moves. He’s our most sensitive and well-built cat and will even vomit when upset. He hates being petted in the morning, but can be pushy about it in the afternoon. Scully is the baby. She’s a tuxedo cat with white paws—the white just being on her feet in the front, but going halfway up her legs in the back—and, I think, the prettiest and most intelligent of the three. Her black fur shines with youth and vigor, and her white whiskers and brown eyes are a perpetual joy.

“I think the idea that we can use or abuse animals comes from the Biblical idea than man should have dominion over all the other animals. One more reason to reject religion.”

I’ve never known a church that cared about nonhumans. No doubt a lot of church people are animal lovers, but they leave their love at the door when they walk into church because, while there, only people matter. Yes, our mistreatment of animals is Biblically based, but cultures that didn’t have the Bible were probably no better. Think of the ancient Romans and their coliseums in which all manner of creatures were brutalized and killed simply for sport, and the many cultures that sacrificed animals to their gods. I’ve no doubt but what any culture that puts humans at the top of the pole in importance feels justified in abusing them and killing them for no good reason—for instance because their flesh tastes good.

“I bet most (maybe all) of those cats have better dispositions than The Donald and probably act more mature, too.”

One would hope. He gives people my age a bad name because we’re supposed to have gained wisdom over the years whereas he still acts like a bully in junior high. I think he reached the end of the trail for a lot of us when he mocked that disabled man because that said volumes about his maturity, decorum, and compassion. It was exactly what a junior high bully would have done, and it would have been inexcusable even for him. How his followers can overlook such things is beyond me. Trump is a buffoon and a fool. “Christianity Today” said about him, “Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord. They see that some of us are so self-interested, and so self-protective, that we will ally ourselves with someone who violates all that is sacred to us—in hope, almost certainly a vain hope given his mendacity and record of betrayal, that his rule will save us.” (http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/october-web-only/speak-truth-to-trump.html?visit_source=twitter&start=3)

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

I hope this finds you and yours doing well. May we display your header on our new site directory? As it is now, the site title (linked back to its home page) is listed, and we think displaying the header will attract more attention. In any event, we hope you will come by and see what is going on at SiteHoundSniffs.com.

possum said...

Hey Snowy, I have been trying to keep up with all that is going on here, but it is my busiest time of year, I am back teaching, and my body is so not cooperating... so this time I decided to not read thru all the comments which I usually find almost as interesting as your post, and what to my surprise! We had moved from your precious kitty babies to (ugh) Trump. Our whole political system has become so screwed, I understand that, and Trump appears to be a way to vent our frustration... However, it is more like shooting ourselves in the foot... those of us who have actually studied history see Hitler all over again, and it is scary.
I am a Bernie fan, but as that is not an option, I feel like I have no choice but to vote for Hillary and hope for Bernie for Speaker. That would be a good deal.

Back on the feline side, I love your babies... and that you love them. They are precious. I really have enjoyed these posts about them.
Take care!

Snowbrush said...

“May we display your header on our new site directory?”

But of course!

“In any event, we hope you will come by and see what is going on at SiteHoundSniffs.com.”

And again I say: “But of course!”

“I am a Bernie fan, but as that is not an option, I feel like I have no choice but to vote for Hillary.”

I don’t think I’m going to vote for her. What with the whole country to choose candidates from, and we end up with Clinton and Trump! Both are smug, greedy, narcissistic, and in love with violence as long as it’s not their children who die in America’s endless and pointless wars. The closer we get to the election, the greater my despair because all I see awaiting us is ever increasing debt, violence, poverty, hatred, and the continuing triumph of the wealthy. If only Clinton weren’t a warmonger, perhaps I could hold my nose and vote for her, but for me to feel that I bear any part of the responsibility for electing yet another president who is enamored of violence. We’ve now been at war for much, if not most, of my life, and for what? All those people dead and maimed, and all that money wasted, and not a thing learned from it. We wage war with no more thought than a dog scratches fleas, only I can understand why a dog scratches fleas, but I have no idea why we keep waging war.

possum said...

I could not agree with you more - except a vote for anyone else ultimately is a vote for Trump and I find that much scarier than Clinton. I certainly can't vote for the jerk that didn't know what Aleppo was... funny thing is, my daughter was not too far from Aleppo when he made that remark. She is a Dr with Drs without Borders, and is fluent in Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic, German, and of course, English. She is much braver than I am.

Yes, it seems there have always been wars. The only President who did not get us in a war was Jimmy Carter. And he got such bad press he only lasted one term. I threw my vote away during that election and look what we got. Our first make-believe president and the beginning of the huge tax breaks for the rich. It has been downhill since.
Why, you ask? One Nation under Greed - that's why.
And it is scary.

rhymeswithplague said...

Hey, possum, about that "hoping for Bernie for Speaker" -- it ain't gonna happen, because Bernie is in the Senate and the Speaker is in the House of Representatives. Two different organizations entirely. Sometimes a Representative, who represents only a portion of a state called a Congressional District will run to be elected as a Senator, who represents the entire state and must be elected statewide, but it is not likely that a Senator would turn around and run to represent only a portion of his state and also exchange a six-year term for a two-year term. Florida has almost 30 representatives and California has more than 50 but there are only two Senators per state. Much more prestigious to be a Senator. The Speaker of the House IS second in line to become president, right behind the Vice-President, But the only way someone gets to be Speaker is if the members of the House of Representatives (435 in all) elect him as Speaker. End of civics lesson.

Cathy Kennedy said...

Thank you for your recent visit, my friend. I enjoyed reading your post. I don't begrudge anyone for keeping pets indoors or their choice to spend their money however they wish. Pets are an enormous expense. If we had them then they would be outdoor pets only with the exception of making a spot for them in the garage for extreme weather conditions. Naturally, we would take responsibility for their health care as needed. I think it's wonderful there are people who do volunteer work at animal shelters or those such as yourself & wife with a deep devotion to your pets. I believe if anyone has pets they need to do the best they can with their animals, which might be different from person to person.

Hillary Clinton is a very corrupt woman who is not for women. How can she be? She has a husband who takes advantage of women left and right. What does she do? She covers up or crushes his victims. She takes money from middle eastern countries who are horrible to women and she wants to bring these extreme Islamists into our country to behead our men and rape/murder our women. She wants to continue ObamaCare, raise taxes, give amnesty to illegal,criminals, and keep jobs out of the country.

I voted for Trump. He's a sound businessman who knows how to turn a buck into a solid profit. He loves America and wants to put Americans back to work. The way I see it they will always be rich and poor people but who creates jobs for people? It is those who have the money and personally I'm thankful for people in that position. Trump wants to cut taxes so the middle class can invest or spend. These things will boost the economy. It always does. I love the fact he wants to make health insurance competitive. That'll drive the cost down and give folks more options. He wants to secure our borders. The pouring in of illegals into our country is draining resources that belong to Americans. He wants to make our military strong, help our vets, support our police officers, protect our 2nd Amendment rights, end the senseless violence, rebuild inner cities and help disadvantaged youth, and the list goes on. I think he'll do a lot of good for America. He's not perfect but he's the best candidate this country has to get back on her feet again. Donald J. Trump truly loves America. I see it in his eyes and by his gestures. May God bless America and may His hand be upon the 2016 election!

Snowbrush said...

“a vote for anyone else ultimately is a vote for Trump and I find that much scarier than Clinton.”

Is that not only true in places where the outcome of the election is in doubt?

“I certainly can't vote for the jerk that didn't know what Aleppo was”

I saw him and his running mate on “60 Minutes,” and found it greatly refreshing to see what I considered real people instead of sicko Trump and two-faced Clinton. Still, I was greatly bothered that a candidate for president was THAT ignorant of international geography, although I would bet that Trump couldn’t do much better...If I had to choose between Hillary, Trump, or that ignorant Libetarian, I would choose the Libetarian because I'm more concerned with our president getting us out of wars than with him or her knowing where we're fighting.

“my daughter…is a Dr with Drs without Borders, and is fluent in Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic, German, and of course, English. She is much braver than I am.”

She might be smarter too, eh?! I’m speechless and, of course, greatly impressed. I can’t help but ask myself what my life is worth compared to someone like your daughter. Peggy sometimes said she is glad we didn’t have children based upon how her sisters’ children came out, but when I hear of someone like your daughter, I’m reminded that greatness does exist.

“The only President who did not get us in a war was Jimmy Carter. And he got such bad press he only lasted one term.”

He and Ford stand out in my memory as men of honor, yet they were both laughed at because honor counts for less than a winning personality. As for winning personality, my choice would be Johnson—Kennedy being a little too slick.

“One Nation under Greed - that's why.”

Yet, instead of corralling the greed, the Republicans want to expand it through deregulation and anti-environmentalism. I’m not keen on the Democratic Party either, but they don’t scare me nearly so much as a party that holds science in contempt, and is willing to put the government into default anytime it doesn’t get its way.

“Much more prestigious to be a Senator.”

Yes, but the difference is clouded by the use of the word Congress to represent both the House and the Senate combined as well as the House alone. I would just add that some of these legislators are very well thought of indeed if they serve long enough. Here, that would be Peter DeFazio who has been in Congress for more terms that I can remember. It’s funny how most Americans hold the ethics of Congress Critters in contempt, yet make an exception for their own Congressman.

Snowbrush said...

“If we had them then they would be outdoor pets only”

Until I was a teenager, and my sister got a little white Pekingnese (that she named Ching), that was how my family and everyone else I knew treated their pets, but, as things are now, if I had to choose between having outdoor-only pets and no pets, I wouldn’t have pets. Our cats are with us 24/7 whereas other humans are only with us for a few hours a week at most, so to whom do you think we feel closest… Our pets are our family. Just curious, what is it that you don't like about having indoor pets or even indoor/outdoor pets?

“she wants to bring these extreme Islamists into our country to behead our men and rape/murder our women.”

I agree that Hillary is corrupt (just not so much as Trump), and, like you, I don’t want to see more Moslems come here because even if those who are allowed in are good people (and I've no doubt but what most are), I would still worry about the growth of that religion and about their children becoming extremists. That said, Constitutionally, we can’t give a “religious test” to immigrants, that is we can’t say that Christians are welcome but Moslems are not, nor can we put a quota on the members of one religion but not on the members of another. And, Cathy, I can but assume I misunderstood what you said about Clinton WANTING Americans to be raped and beheaded.

“I voted for Trump. He's a sound businessman”

Well, he has declared bankruptcy four times, and he has never hesitated to send jobs (or buy products) overseas when it would save him money (during the last debate, Clinton rightly mentioned that he built his Vega hotel with Chinese steel). He has also boasted about not paying taxes (“because I’m smart”), so how can he inspire young people to give their lives for a country that he doesn’t even want to support with his vast wealth? It bothers me not a little to hear president after president talk about how noble it is to serve in our military, yet none of their own children ever do so. I rather think that Hillary, at least, would do all she could to keep her own child or grandchildren from going off to be killed in one of our stupid wars.

“Donald J. Trump truly loves America. I see it in his eyes and by his gestures.”

I can but acknowledge that he is a candidate who is as loved and trusted by some as he is hated and feared by others, and that I’m in the second camp. Yet, can I say I know that Clinton would be a better president? No because I wouldn’t expect anything from either candidate but more war and more debt because that’s just who we are. I also think that both candidates are so hated that either will have trouble getting bills through Congress. I don’t recall a time when a party hated its own candidate to the extent that many Republicans hate Trump, and I would suspect that the hatred is much greater than it appears because so many people are afraid they won’t be elected if they oppose him.