tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post1227915061827816513..comments2024-03-27T12:58:00.592-07:00Comments on Snowbrush: Theology 101: Pascal's WagerSnowbrushhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-76026581126917305262012-09-18T08:45:41.130-07:002012-09-18T08:45:41.130-07:00Snow I don't think you are a "Mr. Slug Sh...Snow I don't think you are a "Mr. Slug Shit from Hell" but I love the term...LOL...Hope you are having a great week "just in case"Joe Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07960458164425338569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-89300491354345126272012-09-17T13:06:22.648-07:002012-09-17T13:06:22.648-07:00Good thing I don't believe in Hell as I often ...Good thing I don't believe in Hell as I often thought I was already there, living here. I'm sure my father, to this day, believes he'll go to heaven despite all he;'s done to me for years on a near daily basis... I long wished for his [gruesome] death as I didn't expect any justice in this world. He still breathes, as far as I know, but I've taken my distances and changed my name so I wouldn't have to hear/sign/say his name all of the time. My own little justice!!Bruno Lalibertéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09607511642101907283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-50304377732499042012-09-16T11:41:46.599-07:002012-09-16T11:41:46.599-07:00"if there is any god, it must find laughable ..."if there is any god, it must find laughable the way humans try to describe it and express its wishes/commands"<br /><br />I find the possibility of a deity inconceivable, at least in terms of that deity being all-wise, all-good, and all-powerful. For one thing, justice doesn't exist, and if there were such a being, justice would necessarily exist. To those who say that, while justice might not exist in this life, all will be made right in the next life, I would offer that to "make something right" after the fact doesn't erase an injustice that has already been committed. It's what human judges do simply because they can do no better. For example, if a child is raped and tortured, the offender might be put in prison, but the only real justice would consist of the crime having never been committed. And in the Biblical scheme, the offender might pray before death and go to heaven (due to Christ being executed in order to placate a just god, if that makes any sense) whereas the child might live in misery, finally commit suicide, and end up in hell, making "divine justice" even less fair than human justice. Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-46484333143463014762012-09-16T11:06:58.990-07:002012-09-16T11:06:58.990-07:00"Could not his 'wager' be designed to..."Could not his 'wager' be designed to do exactly what it is doing, namely revealing the shallow fear driven nature of theism..."<br /><br />So far as I know, he was sincere, but I see what you mean about it being so absurd that it might have been tongue-in-cheek. I just assumed that he lived in such a provincial world that his rationality was stunted.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-23679087482921926022012-09-16T03:30:36.598-07:002012-09-16T03:30:36.598-07:00I gave up Catholic church when I was twelve; went ...I gave up Catholic church when I was twelve; went to Baptist Church for a few years, for my father's sake, and by the age of 18, I clearly knew I was an atheist. Religions always remained an interest of mine, simply because it interest other people and mold their behavior, but in my opinion, if there is any god, it must find laughable the way humans try to describe it and express its wishes/commands; and the actions taken in its name would surely be appaling to it, for all of the bloodshed, violence and prejudice that stem from such beliefs. I prefer to set myself a code of ethics and stand by it throughout this life. It's better [in my opinion] than living by commands and promises of punishment and damnation as I freely do good and abstain from bad, which would fit anyway within my ethics. I do have my flaws, but I feel no guilt, I only hope to improve on them for my own benefit. I've long believe this life was all there is and was often eager to leave it behind to find some rest. But having made some changes in my life lately made me contemplate the remote possibility there could perhaps be something beyond this world, another experience, which could be a welcomed surprise. But if there's nothing, then, that's that!! I don't worry about that at all. I have enough to contend with right here... as we all!!<br />:)~ <br />HUGZBruno Lalibertéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09607511642101907283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-91875979839073582242012-09-15T15:43:31.267-07:002012-09-15T15:43:31.267-07:00Pascal must have been pulling a leg. All your poin...Pascal must have been pulling a leg. All your points are valid but should we assume Pascal meant it to be taken at face value? Could not his 'wager' be designed to do exactly what it is doing, namely revealing the shallow fear driven nature of theism in all its manifestations?<br />Good one mate, now I will catch up on the next episode.Stafford Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03048757515249725540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-19236145304082014112012-09-14T10:31:03.742-07:002012-09-14T10:31:03.742-07:00Chartreuse, I wish I had something to offer that w...Chartreuse, I wish I had something to offer that would help. There's a family in my neighborhood that acts similarly, and I'm just glad they're a few doors down so I don't have to deal with them. I do know that some people have had luck in installing security cameras. For instance, you could train one on your mailbox. If I were you, I would would also wear a taping device whenever I thought I might have to talk to him. When such evidence come before a judge or a jury, they have a much greater impact than anything you could say, and they might also help you to feel like you are able to do something to help yourself. I remember one case here in the States in which a man terrorized a small neighborhood for years, and the cops were no help whatever, and this man was even doing things like running people off the road. One day, one of the neighbors shot him to death after such an incident, and damned if he didn't end up in prison. Sometimes, the law gets in the way of justice rather than making it happen.<br /><br />"I never knew who Campbell was or what term meant exactly"<br /><br />I never studied up on it, but was told that two early 19th century men, one named Campbell and the other named Stone, "revived" the ancient church, which had been meeting secretly for most of the preceding 1800 years. Later, this church split into two groups, the Disciples of Christ and the Church of Christ, the latter being more conservative. The Church of Christ in my area taught that anyone who truly sought God would join the Church of Christ, and if this person lived in the middle of Siberia where there was no CofC, the Lord would guide him to where there was one. THAT'S how uncompromising it was, yet I very much doubt that every member really believed all of this, but that was the teaching.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-72341178540116293332012-09-14T06:03:01.247-07:002012-09-14T06:03:01.247-07:00Good god, Snow. Yes, it's definitely my real-l...Good god, Snow. Yes, it's definitely my real-life neighbour (not my cyber neighbour - YOU) that I'm shit off with. As well as putting dog-shit in my mailbox (to pay me back for my dog getting through the boundary creek and onto his property), last week he came to my gate and with neck veins shaking to burst he threatened to 'kill that dog and kill you' if my pooch so much as wandered onto his acreage again. Can't begin to list the other things he's called me over the years (and most other neighbours as well) and I've already filled out 2 police reports over such incidents. So yes, I've been distracted of late. Sorry you misunderstood. I was just letting off steam to a cyber pal, but obviously not choosing the right sort of humour. Love you heaps, really I do (well, love your work anyway). Chartreusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05919069110736697400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-28100933614056279642012-09-14T05:01:40.672-07:002012-09-14T05:01:40.672-07:00When I was a kid in Texas (60 years ago), the Chur...When I was a kid in Texas (60 years ago), the Church of Christ folk were often called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbellite" rel="nofollow">Campbellites</a> by others. I never knew who Campbell was or what term meant exactly, but it always sounded like a slur and was usually accompanied by a sneer. Their equivalent among the Baptists were known as "hard shell"....<br /><br /> rhymeswithplaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10870439618129001633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-59696515602698891342012-09-13T20:59:20.799-07:002012-09-13T20:59:20.799-07:00Chartreuse, maybe I just completely misunderstood ...Chartreuse, maybe I just completely misunderstood your comment, and it was your neighbor you were contemplating leaving as opposed to my blog. I'm certainly sorry if things are that bad for you, but of course, I should be pleased if it's not me that you're upset with. <br /><br />"God and religion? two separate entities in my view. Religion is man made."<br /><br />The church that I grew up in believed that all religions are manmade except for itself. The Church of Christ regarded itself as the very church that Christ had started, and it therefore expressed grave doubts--if not outright disbelief--that anyone who wasn't a member of it (the world over, including people who had never ever heard of it) was going to hell. Because the Church of Christ has no governing body that has power over local congregations, this attitude might not have been the case in Churches of Christ everywhere, but it was the case everywhere I knew anything about, and that included churches in Mississippi, Texas, Arkansas, Indiana, Georgia, and Kentucky.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-7107366795262741592012-09-13T20:37:54.677-07:002012-09-13T20:37:54.677-07:00We all ass-u-me. Some assume there is God, some as...We all ass-u-me. Some assume there is God, some assume there is no God. I also took some theology classes because I wanted to understand more of this religion I was born into. The result is that I had really good teachers and I understood the history of my religion, but it did not change my faith. God and religion? two separate entities in my view. Religion is man made. Anyway, great post as usual. A Plain Observerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03741520771592669741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-51660088842269242622012-09-13T15:14:37.518-07:002012-09-13T15:14:37.518-07:00Chartreuse, I don't think I've ever gotten...Chartreuse, I don't think I've ever gotten but one letter from another blogger that contained more anger. In fact, I had to re-read it for the full effect to dawn on me. <br /><br />I leave it to you whether to "move," but it is not my wish that you do so.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-20415049598258358912012-09-13T14:59:07.854-07:002012-09-13T14:59:07.854-07:00Snow, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Now ...Snow, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Now that I look more closely at the photo top left on your blog I see those long hairs are sprouting from the chin. As to everything else, blame it on my deranged neighbour. Am seriously contemplating a move rather than further engagement. "Love thy neighbour?" Like hell. Chartreusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05919069110736697400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-92062799861418789092012-09-13T10:19:33.310-07:002012-09-13T10:19:33.310-07:00"I had time to get confused"
It's o..."I had time to get confused"<br /><br />It's okay. Most of Christendom is confused. For example, all of our presidents are Christians, but they still see no irony in dropping bombs, torturing people, calling in hits on their enemies, and breaking their campaign promises.<br /><br />"I'm just gonna play FreeCell and leave all this theoretical bullshit to you long-hairs."<br /><br />Chartreuse, I don't understand what precipitated your seeming hostility, but I would welcome more information. As it is, I don't know what FreeCell is; and I don't know what you mean by "theoretical bullshit"; and I don't know who "longhairs" are or why I am included in their ranks since my own hair is shorter than average, at least after Peggy gives me my monthly haircut.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-5943125352035422982012-09-13T06:06:59.991-07:002012-09-13T06:06:59.991-07:00I had a comment in mind but then I started to read...I had a comment in mind but then I started to read your comments. So I had time to get confused, and now I'm back to thinking about my crazy neighbour whom I'm allowed to hate cause I'm an atheist, but not allowed to murder cause I nevertheless am ethical, but to whom I definitely did not turn my other cheek when he verbally accosted me at my gate last week because I know how to deal with bullies and being meek ain't the way to go. So now I'm just gonna play FreeCell and leave all this theoretical bullshit to you long-hairs. Nice talkin to ya, Snow.Chartreusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05919069110736697400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-77196280911903240402012-09-12T19:43:50.545-07:002012-09-12T19:43:50.545-07:00"how can an atheist believe that God prefers ..."how can an atheist believe that God prefers the company of atheists, when an atheist doesn't believe there is a god at all?"<br /> <br />I didn't say that I believe that God prefers the company of atheists. My intent was to point out that the nonbelievers whom Pascal was trying to reach wouldn't have reason to share his assumption that human worship is pleasing to God. If there is a deity, he/she/it is nothing if not mysterious, and the field is wide open to what, if anything, a human being would need to do (or be) in order to please him/her/it. This would leave the possibility that God prefers atheists to theists. Surely you understand that I didn't meant to suggest that this--or anything in particular--is really the case. Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-48538268037030004302012-09-12T19:35:17.055-07:002012-09-12T19:35:17.055-07:00Yea, though I walk for 109,589 years (which is yea...Yea, though I walk for 109,589 years (which is yea verily a thousand days time forty multiplied by a thousand) I shall never be caught saying, "Thy cup runneth over with beauty!" without also adding, "And thy saucer is filled with tomfoolery." rhymeswithplaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10870439618129001633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-61215791328209993852012-09-12T19:24:29.772-07:002012-09-12T19:24:29.772-07:00"I have decided that I need not comment on ev..."I have decided that I need not comment on every post of yours, Snow."<br /><br />And I set my face unto the Georgian, to seek by supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes, that he wouldst comment on every post of mine, but, behold, he wouldst not, and it was not good but it was bad, and there was no help for it, and I was aggrieved for a a thousand days time forty multiplied by a thousand, after which time my travails over his silence had often begun.<br /><br />"I love you, Snow, no matter what you believe or don't believe and I know this chaps your ass (tee-hee) but I pray for you often. xoxo"<br /><br />Tell me that thou loveth me all the days of my life, by night and by day because if it pleaseth thee, it will please me doubly but, hearken unto my words, oh Louisiana woman, and sayeth not the other for it doth giveth me the hives, and thou surely knoweth how they itcheth me and moreover, how they rob me of my beauty, which is beyond words and pleaseth the eye of young and old, male and female, Republican and Democrat, straight and gay, until they sayeth with one voice, "Thy cup runneth over with beauty!"Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-65020227744232765332012-09-12T19:10:02.455-07:002012-09-12T19:10:02.455-07:00I myself try to avoid religious discussions becaus...I myself try to avoid religious discussions because despite the fact that I'm a regular churchgoer (yes, I go once a year), I readily admit that I don't know what I'm talking about. However ... how can an atheist believe that God prefers the company of atheists, when an atheist doesn't believe there is a god at all?Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08611148987085476580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-36640162463921620152012-09-12T12:06:33.565-07:002012-09-12T12:06:33.565-07:00I have decided that I need not comment on every po...I have decided that I need not comment on every post of yours, Snow. So, in spite of the fact that I just commented on this post, consider that I haven't commented on this post.<br /><br />It doesn't mean I don't have opinions, and it certainly doesn't mean you have finally won me over to your way of thinking. It means only that I have decided that I need not comment on every post of yours, Snow.rhymeswithplaguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10870439618129001633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-12722783970195667392012-09-12T11:21:11.406-07:002012-09-12T11:21:11.406-07:00I was astounded to get up this morning and find fi...I was astounded to get up this morning and find five new comments awaiting me because I had assumed that this post would be the coupe de gras to my readership. I figured that whoever survived all the posts about atheism and drugs would surely be outta here once I moved on to Pascal's Wager.<br /><br />"not exactly a very enlightened reason for believing in God."<br /><br />I know, and that too bothered me. I thought to myself that, this argument blows, so why have Christians have been using it as one of their big guns for 400 years unless they can't do any better!<br /><br />"I have seen so many of my friends get that "formal education" and degrees, and they're at some supermarket packing up groceries"<br /><br />I have two responses. One is that, statistically, the more education you have, the more money you make. The second is that the rewards of an education go far beyond income, and a formal education combined with life-long self-education is to be treasured. Why both? Because a formal education exposes one to knowledge that he or she wouldn't attain with self-directed study alone.<br /><br />"Before I know it I will be saying 'it must be true, Snowbrush said so'."<br /><br />That will be the day when I start asking you to send me a monthly tithe.<br /><br />"Pascal's wager is something for Christians to laugh about privately"<br /><br />The ones I knew took it very seriously, it and the story about the atheist who was walking along the ocean when he found a watch, realized that it couldn't have "just happened," and became a Christian on the spot. Of course, no one knew that this story also comes from the 1700s (William Paley), and so it was shared it as if it were a real event that recently occurred.<br /><br />"Finally, i must tell you that the deeper i go into my spiritual quest, the better it gets. i understand that a statement like that appears to be insane"<br /><br />If your faith is working for you, great. I certainly don't think you're insane, and I wouldn't necessarily consider it a good thing if my arguments led you to become an atheist because I don't know if you would be any happier, and I can well imagine that you might become less happy (feeling like the Big Guy is on one's side is pretty neat, I'm sure, if you really can believe it). The only problem with private faith is that it doesn't serve as public evidence.Snowbrushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00436087215476479042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-61446280649176311422012-09-12T06:26:54.102-07:002012-09-12T06:26:54.102-07:00A friend of mine in college, who I doubt had ever ...A friend of mine in college, who I doubt had ever heard of Pascal, and I hadn't either at the time, said the same thing to me one time when we were talking about religion. He said that he believed God because if there wasn't one he had merely wasted a bit of time, but if there was one and he hadn't believed he figured he'd end up in hell. Interesting argument, although not exactly a very enlightened reason for believing in God.Charles Gramlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052592247572253641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-80116135357936550892012-09-12T06:00:38.695-07:002012-09-12T06:00:38.695-07:00Snow, always craving to learn more is a good thing...Snow, always craving to learn more is a good thing, but "formal education" to me just sounds neutral because I have seen so many of my friends get that "formal education" and degrees, and they're at some supermarket packing up groceries or not working at all, after years and years of studying for a particular thing. I think what's important, is studying whatever it is that would enhance your life - enhance your job or let's say, your writing which is awesome in itself. Becoming "better" and gaining more knowledge -- yes, I'm all for that. I'm NOT saying formal education isn't good, I'm just saying sometimes people don't need it if they have the longing to learn and use their gifts and talents to get them through life. <br /><br />Lotta joy, I always wondered about that because it seems to make more sense that people would have something to look for, whether rich or poor. Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14986475569600734742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-89715384935793157392012-09-11T23:51:51.523-07:002012-09-11T23:51:51.523-07:00I am getting tired of the number of times you make...I am getting tired of the number of times you make sense to me. Before I know it I will be saying 'it must be true, Snowbrush said so'.<br />Which is so wrong.Elephant's Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06650565833097914052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23830899.post-53141239280210717372012-09-11T20:54:53.697-07:002012-09-11T20:54:53.697-07:00When people tell me "Jesus Loves you", a...When people tell me "Jesus Loves you", although usually people don't say that, they let their bumper stickers say it, I think, or sometimes say to them, "You say that because you don't want to love me." It can keep undesirable encounters at arms length if you push them off to Jesus. It's a coping phrase. I know, I'm off subject. Pascal's wager is something for Christians to laugh about privately, when mocking nonbelievers. I heard it done, when I was a kid and attaining doubts every Sabbath.Strayerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08124298302997708537noreply@blogger.com