Are bad boys simply boys, and bad girls sluts?

A blog friend and I were discussing the appearance choices (clothing, tattoos, piercings, hairstyles) of alternativly minded people when she wrote:  “My back is up by the insistence of the word ‘slutty’—you cant be seriously telling me you meant that to apply to both male and females surely?”

First, I will only admit to being sexist inasmuch as I regard women as more moral than men due to the fact that evolution made it desirable for males to impregnate every woman in sight, and for females to find a safe environment in which to raise their precious few eggs. Because the male impulse is detrimental to a stable society, it would clearly be for the common good if men were more like women. It would also save countless male politicians and preachers from losing their jobs.

Second, I refuse to avoid gender-specific criticisms simply because they are gender specific and therefore don’t fit the current definition of how I am to think if I value gender equality. We all have a general idea of what slutty dress and behavior look like, and that both are specific to women (sleazy has a somewhat similar meaning and can apply to both genders). Because appearance and body language represent a profound statement of whom we are, I would argue that slutty is an accurate description rather than a sexist insult.
Third, I don’t see the word slut as deprecating of women but only of those women who dishonor womanhood. Manhood should mean more than testicles, and womanhood should mean more that presenting oneself as a likely object with which to have intercourse. I realize that women who present themselves as sluts sometimes do so falsely, whether through naiveté or because they find gratification in watching men slobber, but this doesn’t negate my point. For a woman to dress and behave in a sexually suggestive way constitutes a negative statement about her self-worth whether or not shes promiscuous.

Until the advent of the birth control pill, women were the guardians of morality because they were the ones who had the most to lose due to pregnancy; hence words like whore and slut applied to them alone. As a result of the pill, the expectation that women take the lead in guarding morality has been greatly lowered, yet it is still true that men behave like so many bower birds in their desperation to win the favor of females. Men simply don’t need to send permissive signals by the way they dress because the term “permissive male” is all but redundant. The same is not true of women, so women of questionable character always have and always will find it desirable to signal their availability. 
If a woman wants to excite a man, she need only display her thighs and cleavage, but if she wants to win his respect, she needs to be his moral superior because, to put in bluntly, evolution made mento continue with my critters analogieslike so many dogs in the gutter (which is why both genders are hard-pressed to sell sex to anyone but men). On this, I would assume that many of those who insist on complete gender equality would agree because theirs is not an equality that cuts both ways, but rather a veneer over their hatred of men. As I see it, equality must take differences into accountthe rub is in determining what differences. Does this not mean that I too hate men? No, I hate it that the power of testosterone is so enormousand so beyond the understanding of womenthat it leads men to be as promiscuous as I have been.  

"The time I’ve lost in wooing,
In watching and pursuing
The light, that lies
In woman’s eyes,
Has been my heart’s undoing.
Though Wisdom oft has sought me,
I scorn’d the lore she brought me,
My only books
Were woman’s looks,
And folly’s all they’ve taught me."
Thomas Moore 1779-1852)

Two other things make it necessary that women assume greater moral responsibility and therefore deserve greater condemnation if they fail to do so. One is that young men, at least, live in such an intense state of sexual arousal that it qualifies as torture, while women have to build into arousal. The other is that women suffer more severe consequences from herpes and pelvic inflammatory disease. It therefore makes sense that, even with the pill, a double standard not only continues to exist, but that it is proper for it to exist because, to repeat myself: (a) women have the most to lose, and (b) women are better able to say no.

Margaret Deland had much to say about gender issues, and they are completely congruent with my own experiences. The following sampler is from her novelette “Amelia,” which appeared in her book Dr. Lavendar’s People in 1903.

“… the companionship of an eminently worthy wife is almost never enough for the male creature.”

“…as every intelligent…woman knows, men like fools; feminine fools.”

“…a man wants more than to just look at a pretty girl across the table.”

“…the male creature, good and honest and faithful as he may be, is at heart a Mormon.”

I have attempted to show why I think it behooves women to put their emphasis on attractiveness rather than sexuality. Even so, there is lot of ground between, on the one hand, taking the position that gender-based realities don’t exist, and, on the other, arguing, as do millions of Moslems, that women are fire and men are gasoline, and women must therefore cover themselves from head to foot so that poor, desperate horny men wont be forced to rape them. 

The worst thing I can say about what I regard as slutty dress and behavior isn’t how it affects men but what it says about women. For a woman to present sexuality as her dominant visual statement about herself is to imply that her existence is a triviality. In the early days of modern feminism, women who presented themselves as “sex objects” (the term used at the time) were severely condemned by the feminist community, so how is it that we went from that to the current belief that such dress and behavior are not only consistent with equality, they are equality, the result being that people like myself whose views were once consistent with feminism are now labeled as sexist because we dont agree that behaving like a dog in heat is a noble endeavor?
A movement’s high ideals can quickly degenerate for various reasons. For instance, there might have been a loss of strong leadership; or an absence of focus and clarity once a movement’s primary goals were achieved; or the movement’s original values might have become the status quo; or those too young to remember how hard it was to achieve those goals might take them for granted. So it is that, in my lifetime, Civil Rights and feminism have become trivialized; the demand for freedom of expression has become the tyranny of political correctness; and the Peace Movement has fallen off the radar. When such weakening occurs, superficiality becomes the order of the day; goals that were once considered unworthy are that’s left; and behaviors that were once unthinkable become acceptable. Deland (1857-1945) saw all of this coming, and grieved for the growing social fragmentation of the 20th century, a fragmentation that she recognized as an unintended consequence of what started as the movement for women’s suffrage. The trouble of ridding society of negative values is that positive values can also be lost in the change.


PhilipH said...

Can't argue with you here. Men are not designed to be monogamous even through many remain 'faithful' to one woman simply because the opportunity to 'stray' has not occurred.

Western women DO dress to attract a man, especially the younger ones. Single parent kids are increasing, or so it seems to me. This is because most men cannot resist sex when it's on offer, so to speak. Too many young girls get drunk and incapable of stopping the advances of a man, young or not so young.

Sex, stronger than the Atlantic cable, it's pulled monarchs from their throne. Who said that?

BBC said...

"First, I will only admit to being sexist inasmuch as I regard women as more moral than men due to the fact that evolution made it desirable for males to impregnate every woman in sight,"

Some research years ago pointed out to me that thousands of years ago women were pretty much sluts that would screw any strange men that happened along, morals wasn't a big an issue back then, but it did create problems, to make a long story short over the course of time men created morals in women but it is difficult to explain how now, I didn't take notes at the time, but the process included coming up with religions.

Anyway, I'm still fond of eye candy.

BBC said...

" Men are not designed to be monogamous even through many remain 'faithful' to one woman simply because the opportunity to 'stray' has not occurred. "

Churchill said something about the fact that it is difficult to keep up a sexual interest in the same heifer all the time. But in truth many men do find the right woman and spend many years with her, good relationships involve more than just sex.

stephen Hayes said...

An interesting discussion. Society seems intent on denying the natural instincts humans have evolved with when it comes to sex.

Snowbrush said...

“to make a long story short over the course of time men created morals in women”

Not that the men themselves observed these morals, the goal simply being to know who their kids were by forcing women to be monogamous.

“many men do find the right woman and spend many years with her, good relationships involve more than just sex.”

Peggy and I celebrated our 44th anniversary in December, but it hasn’t been an easy marriage on either part. As for sex, that’s a thing of the past for us but giving it up has in no way diminished the intensity of how we interact or our mutual desire for physical touch. I, for one, am delighted that sex no longer consumes me to the point that I would be willing to walk away from anyone and anything if a hot and willing woman beckoned because getting inside women was like getting inside heaven. nothing being more pleasing intense for the time it lasted. If you say I was obsessed or addicted, I can but agree. I wouldn’t wish what I was on anyone, and I’m glad to be relatively free of it.

“many remain 'faithful' to one woman simply because the opportunity to 'stray' has not occurred.”

If a man waits for a woman to jump in his lap, he might have a long wait, but when I set my heart of having affairs, I found that willing women were all over the place. How easy it was to pick up women astounded me—as it did Peggy

“Society seems intent on denying the natural instincts humans have evolved with when it comes to sex.”

Can I take this to mean that you’re in general agreement with this post? I never know how my posts will be taken. I always anticipate losing readers when I write anything controversial, but this is a subject that I haven’t undertaken, so I really don’t know how offensive it might be to many people, especially women. I just know it’s all true according to the best light I have. I could have held onto it a few more days, but I was ready to be done with ediiting, so here it is.

BBC said...

I don't have any problem with the post, whatever, hahahahaha

BBC said...

Whatever doesn't mean fuck you, it just means to me that it isn't important enough to go on about. :-)

Snowbrush said...

“Men are not designed to be monogamous even through many remain 'faithful' to one woman simply because the opportunity to 'stray' has not occurred. ”

If the opportunity hasn’t occurred, I would assume that the man is rarely around women, or that he provides no indication of interest in them—things like little courtesies, lots of eye contact, listening and asking questions to make her see that she matters to you, an occasional light touch on the forearm or shoulder at appropriate moments, becoming absorbed in what she’s saying, and in her values and experiences, life history, and opinions. Last but not least, showing that you that you have a sense of humor. Adoration also helps, if it’s not overdone. Timing humor, and setting are crucial. One thing that helped me was that I really and truly enjoyed the company of women even in the absence of any likelihood of sex.

Myrna R. said...

Interesting. I wasn't aware of this "cause". Feminism was so different in my day. I did "burn" my bra, which was a silly demonstration. Youth, can account for lots of shallow actions. It's hard for me to call a young woman a slut. They could all be my daughters. I do know what it means, but still name calling never helps anything.

(Not sure why your first comment did not appear on my blog. I did publish it then, and republished it again. Thanks for visiting me Snow.)

kylie said...

I really struggle with this subject: in theory I uphold the right of any woman to wear what she likes and have as much sex as she likes but I am as likely as anyone to label someone slutty.
I think my problem is with women who use sex (or sexiness) as their main attribute but i can't even say that for sure, maybe I'm just old fashioned and bigoted.

G. B. Miller said...

Yet one more stupidity for my 15 year old daughter to encounter and for her seriously short fuse of a father to defend against.

Joseph Pulikotil said...


This is a very interesting post but somehow I am at a loss to write a worthwhile comment.

In India, I read every day in the news papers that some woman or girl child is being raped by a single man or subject to gang rapes. Sometimes women commit suicide because they are raped and they can't withstand the shame. Many families don't report rape cases to police because of shame.

One hardcore Hindu man even said that there was a severe earthquake in Nepal because women there wore jeans.

I can see women dressing more and more provocatively these days which did not happen in my younger days and it has been reported that the percentage of people watching porn movies in India has increase many fold over the years.

Politicians have been caught watching porn movies in the Assembly hall while serious discussions are going on. It has also been reported that many school children also watch porn movies. There is law against watching porn movies in India.

Words like fuck, shit, bastard,bitch etc. are commonly used now by many people and they don't even bat an eyelid. I am not taking a high moral ground. But I am shocked when I hear such words are used in public.

In one of your photos I saw a placard stating MY PUSSY,MY CHOICE. I was wondering what she actually meant. Does it mean that she selected her pussy when she was born or does it mean she will give her pussy to a person of her choice. or does it have some other meaning?

As regards the woman wearing a see through wedding dress I got the impression that this woman wants the people to know the assets that she is going to offer to the man on the wedding night.

Another photo of a woman with sagging breasts wants respect. Do you think any one will respect sagging breasts? It would have been better if she had covered her hanging boobs.

Let the women dress they they way want, show off all their wares to the public and perhaps even walk naked on the streets. It will be an entertainment for men.

As I said earlier I am unable to contribute anything meaningfully to your thought provoking post. What I wrote is just for fun.

Best wishes

Snowbrush said...

“It's hard for me to call a young woman a slut. They could all be my daughters.”

But what if they were? What would they be fit for—a career, motherhood, being accorded respect by men or by other women? Not to say that it is less heartbreaking to have a son who does what he pleases without taking the rights or welfare of anyone else into account, simply that it is still the female who bears a greater cost and therefore the greater stigma.

“name calling never helps anything.”

I don’t believe this. When we were teenagers, teen pregnancy was rare, largely because girls didn’t want to be labeled and ostracized. Such treatment of them came to be considered sexist and cruel, and the emphasis was switched to helping pregnant teens and their babies rather than ostracizing them. The result of this focus upon kindness was that the stigma was taken from teen pregnancy, and more and more teens became pregnant, with their babies being raised by their child mothers, or by grandparents, or by foster parents, but in any case in a less than desirable environment and on public welfare. Kindness can create more suffering than it alleviates.

“I am as likely as anyone to label someone slutty.”

Peggy is too, so if this is a sexist word, it’s clearly one that’s used by women too. I think that, in Peggy’s case, the hostility toward women she regards as slutty is even greater than my own because she believes that their behavior reflects upon all women. I feel the same toward male pedophiles. Because many men molest children, I have to be very, very careful about how I behave around children. I can’t hug them, I can’t touch them during play, and god forbid that they and I ever get out of sight of their parents. All this because of what other members of my gender do. So it is that, fair or not, our behavior reflects upon our gender, age, race, and so forth.

“Yet one more stupidity for my 15 year old daughter to encounter and for her seriously short fuse of a father to defend against.”

Yet, you would surely have a sense of shame if your daughter looked like the women in any of the photos I posted. I have a niece who, as a teenager, had two babies, both of which were raised by her parents while she and the baby’s father went their merry—and separate—ways. You’ll note that it was HER parents, not HIS parents who raised those babies, and this is usually the case. Even in our modern, kind, enlightened, and all things good era, it is not only the female who suffers more (though damn little in this kid’s case), it is also her parents. This girl’s parents could have retired years ago had their daughter not left them—and the taxpayer—to bear 100% of the financial and emotional responsibility of her two moments of pleasure. When my wife retired as an OB nurse, MOST of the babies she delivered were either to emotionally immature teenagers or to emotionally immature older women who had no man in their lives. In other words, the man had his fun, and he was gone. This is where kindness and “equality" has taken us, and it’s the children who pay the price. No good can come from eternally excusing people for the evil they do, and this is why I’m not a liberal. As bad as conservatism is in many ways, it alone puts an emphasis on personal accountability.

Joseph, if only you had thought of something to say, you might have written five times as much! I didn’t know that the situation in India was much as it is here. We do hear about your gang rapes, gender selection while in the womb, and other forms of gender discrimination, but when a society, in the name of freedom, so degenerates that young people can openly and loudly use profanity on the streets and in school, what good is likely to be in that society’s future?

Michael Valentine Smith said...

Is it not the responsibility of a parent to educate a child of the consequences of promiscuity and to provide a positive role model for the child to emulate?

After reading many of your epistles, I have to conclude that your past promiscuity has not led to success.

Snowbrush said...

“Is it not the responsibility of a parent to educate a child of the consequences of promiscuity and to provide a positive role model for the child to emulate? …I have to conclude that your past promiscuity has not led to success.”

Success in what way? Have I matured and grown in insight? Yes. Did I raise children upon whose lives I served as a bad influence? No. When I was a young man, I refused to have sex with anyone who wasn’t on the pill, and, as soon as I could find a doctor to do it, I had a vasectomy. I was well aware that having children would change my life dramatically, and I didn’t want that change, so I didn’t have children. Even so, would I hold myself as an exemplar of what a good man should be? No, not only because of promiscuity but because of not having realized my potential, and having had my views and values subject to frequent and dramatic changes. The latter could be taken as the natural result of an ever questioning intelligence, or it could be seen as flakiness, depending upon the disposal of my evaluator. In any event, it might have been hard on children.

I must apologize for the font changes within this post, but a lot of effort had not solved the problem. I just changed the picture sizes, eliminated the captions, retyped part of the post, and so on, but the funky fonts remain.

Charles Gramlich said...

THere are some differences between men and women as far as 'trends' in behavior goes. Men tend to be more aroused by visual stimuli. Men tend to look for chances to sow their wild oats more. However, for the most part men and women are far more alike than they are different.

BBC said...

“Is it not the responsibility of a parent to educate a child of the consequences of promiscuity and to provide a positive role model for the child to emulate?"

I can assure everyone that all you can do is the best you can, even girls raised in church family's will do what they want to do when the hormones kick in. More than one ministers daughter has stumbled and fell on a dick. One of the few instructions hard wired into us when we arrive on this rock is to "get with it."

My wife was a churchy type but she came with a son, my daughter popped hers at 15 and frankly I don't give a shit, it has been this way forever. My first time besides my hand was when I was 20 but I was pretty bashful back in my youth (it had nothing to do with morals) and just didn't know how to act around girls and I only had sex twice before getting married.

Then I tried making up for lost time, hahahahah.

Snowbrush said...

I had 277 followers when I put this post up, and I’m now down to 255 and counting. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I’ve written many posts that offended people, but I’ve never lost more than two or three people over a given post, and, in all honesty, I’m amazed that that many people even read this post. I’ve reread it myself several times since putting it up (and scores of times before putting it up) to be sure I meant what I said and said what I meant. I think I did a decent job, so, having been true to myself, there’s no going back. Peggy is now going to visit her adopted granddaughter, but I’m not welcome there because of a former post I wrote, so I’m in a low mood at the moment, what with the loss of my granddaughter plus the loss of so many readers. Still, I never offend anyone gratuitously, but rather due to speaking the truth as I see it in as reasonable a manner as I am able, so there’s nothing I can do differently except to pretend I’m someone I’m not, and that’s an even higher price to pay than offending people. I’m either me or I’m dead, at least spiritually.

Again, I'm sorry for the funky fonts.

BBC said...

I stopped caring how many visit or comment some time ago and just roll along doing my own thing.

In past lives I've been a slut and I'm sure I will be again in the future. :-)

CreekHiker / HollysFolly said...

Well said Snow

Uthman Saheed said...

Hmmmmmmm this is indeed an expression from the heart. You said it just how you felt. That's simple enough to be respected as your own take on the indecent dressing in our generation.

That's what the society has turned to. When it comes to women dressing, it like all the element of morality, shyness, self esteem has be moped off.

Majority no longer honour their own privacy as long as they can dress in a sexual way to attract the opposite sex.

billy pilgrim said...

i don't think in terms of women being slutty or virtuous. i just know that women get the short end of the stick. in my experience most women work harder than men and are much more responsible. on the large part, men create messes and the women are left to clean up after us.

shit look at marriage. typically men are older than their wives and also have a lower life expectancy. therefore the woman has to look after some decrepit old man and give him end of life care and then she's at the mercy as to whether her husband was responsible enough to leave her financially secure etc.

i'm in my 28th year of marriage and they say that the first 27 years are the most difficult. so i got that going for me too.

Snowbrush said...

“In past lives I've been a slut and I'm sure I will be again in the future. :-)”

You would still look hot in a halter-top, a red-mini, smeared make-up, frazzled-hair, torn net stockings, and the odor of cigarettes and liquor on your breath. Then I would have to spank you for having been a very naughty girl.

“Majority no longer honour their own privacy as long as they can dress in a sexual way to attract the opposite sex.”

Privacy, dignity, and honor aren’t words we hear much anymore in America.

“i don't think in terms of women being slutty or virtuous.”

Do you mean to say that everyone is level in your mind with no one being worthy of either condemnation or praise? No names, no labels, just people being people with tolerance being the one necessary virtue? Finally, I never meant to pose these as the only two options or to suggest that change isn’t possible. Just as I look back with embarrassment on much of what I’ve done in life, so might the women I pictured someday look back with embarrassment. It’s also true that we don’t create ourselves apart from our families, friends, and society, so if some women regard sexuality as their only worthwhile attribute, the problem isn’t theirs alone, but at least partially the result of all manner of things such as mass media, having being raped or molested, never having had a longterm relationship with an honorable father-figure, and so forth.

“i just know that women get the short end of the stick.”

They often do, although race, class, and money, are probably more influential than gender.

“i'm in my 28th year of marriage and they say that the first 27 years are the most difficult.”

I used to hear that year seven was supposed to be a killer, but I don’t know where that came from or even if some years really are statistically harder. What I’ve found is that Peggy and I tend to beat our heads against the same problems for decades sometimes, although some problems drop away and some new ones take their place. I don’t recall a time when I could have said that marriage was easy.

BBC said...

I think American women have it better than they did fifty years ago when they were using ringer washing machines and had all kinds of other chores they don't have to deal with today.

BBC said...

My second wife was always fussing about what she thought was a lack of morals in others, ignoring the fact that she had a kid out of wedlock and was knocked up when we got married.

I've never much concerned myself with sexual morals, why should I care who is screwing whom as long as everyone is getting some sex.

fiftyodd said...

Wow, I have tried to stay focused on this lengthy discussion. I can't say I find anything offensive in the discourse or comments at all. When my daughter was a teenager, I did battle with her over her (to me, sexy (slutty?), clothing. She simply could not see my argument that it was provocative to wear such skimpy things. It was just fashion in her eyes - and all the 'in' girls dressed like that. Incidentally, I don't think it is easier for girls to resist sexual urges. As far as I remember, our hormones raged just as much as the males. Nothing 'bad' happened to my daughter, by the way: children of the 80s were more savvy than we (of the sixties) were. I had a baby when I was 19. Totally my choice to have him adopted despite my mother's wish to bring him up. I've never had any regrets. I find your posts extremely thought-provoking and carefully worded, Snow, please keep writing.

BBC said...

" I did battle with her over her (to me, sexy (slutty?),"

My number 2 daughter got fired from a bank because of that.

Sparkling Red said...

I agree with you that men, as much as women, are at the mercy of their hormones. We humans create a lot of problems by pretending that that's not the case. Many studies and the story of human history show that humans are terrible at exercising self-control, for the most part. We make decisions based on emotions and habits, and justify our "choices" after the fact.

As I see it, the sexual attraction game is also a power game. Women know that they can exercise power over men by attracting them. But it really is like teasing a tiger. The balance of power can tip in an instant. Of course, there are plenty of strong women would could punch out plenty of puny men, but that's not usually how it works out.

Sexual attraction is a powerful natural force like a hurricane. It's fine if you want to have the thrill of being a storm chaser, but you have to go in realizing that you're taking a risk. Especially in environments where people are drinking and/or taking drugs. I'm not absolving men of responsibility here; they are responsible for exercising as much self-control as they can summon. And women are responsible for not taking advantage of this weakness of men in an exploitative way, if they want to think of themselves as moral humans.

fiftyodd said...

I do understand that. I was a teacher in a boy's High School when I was in my twenties. The headmaster demanded a pretty strict dress code, with which I co-operated to the extent that I wore a lab coat over my trousers and my 14-year-olds often called me 'Sir'.

Mir Stella said...

Basically Snow, times have changed. I think of these topics often and while I have to go back to read your post in more detail, I have complicated thoughts about this topic.

If you lost 22 people, screw 'em.

Why did you lose your adopted grand-daughter? From a post? Really????

Joe Todd said...

Last Sat. was "Garden Naked Day" in case you missed it.. I do support Free the Nipple (campaign)...